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Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I find myself frustrated and then feel guilty. WISC-IV: (standard scores), Verbal Comprehension Index: 128 In other words, performance tests non-verbal capabilities. We scored the tests together, and it was a wonderful experience for both my son and I. Also, his pre-AP math teacher said she would not recommend any type of SpEd services as this would give him an easy way out or Make him lazy when he is fully capable. Disclaimer. -Teach note-taking techniques that will present and summarize heard information visually. Highly verbal people with challenges interpreting their environment and expressing new or complex ideas in their own terms. I am not sure what his finemotricy issues could be or how best to help him there. Hes also been diagnosed with EBD and is on Abilify to help with behavior and stability. LDSB Raw Score 4. Daniela I keep thinking this qualifies him to be a twice exceptional student. Do you often have problem explaining ideas inside your head? He remembers an incredible amount from books that are read to him. Regular OT sessions are not an option due to cost. We arent selling a service or product. For children with neuropsychological issues such as learning disorders, Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, and other similar issues, difficulties with working memory and processing speed may result in lower FSIQ scores (Wechsler, 2003), making the GAI a better indicator of potential. What Does It Mean To Have Weak Executive Functioning Skills? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Find: I appreciate the feedback. Cancellation-10, Visuospatial Perception-Motor coordination 60 percentile. But it takes him several hours to just get started! oral expression 107. He did four months of vision therapy for some tracking and convergence issues. Here is what I wrote in response to another comment: WISCIV GAI provides a summary score composed of the Verbal Comprehension and Perceptual Reasoning Indexes. We will be done with this math program before February at his current pace, and its supposed to last the whole year. Her Perceptual Reasoning and Working Memory skills are a bit lower. This is a perfect profile for my 33-year-old son who suffers from depression and is unable to keep a job for more than two years. GAI-155 I have been told that my child is adhd combine, dyslexic, dysgraphic, dyscalcula and motor coordination issues. (visual matching 87, rapid picture naming 95, decision speed 78, pair cancellation 99) Do you have some kind of specific brain injury that cut out certain forms of cognitive processing(those involved in some of specific processing needed for questions in the performance iq section) while leaving everything else intact? I would also investigate his executive functioning skills, specially set shifting. Imagine you can only hold 8 words in your head at a time. You can have him take the quiz on my website to see how he rates. My son was about 130 verbal and 80 working memory/processing. Poor verbal comprehension often refers to a low verbal IQ. Teach how to properly prepare; preparations made in advance will allow him more time once he begins the task. I have a hard time working in groups because Im constantly distracted by the people around me, expecting them to interrupt my thought process any moment. Therefore, he is getting stuck before he even starts. Then they can go word by word slowly. Pulling a sentence out of Tim is more like raising a herd of unicorns, impossible. I actually want us to be prepared with questions to guide the discussion in a positive way but not to appear to be the experts in the room. Or could you guide me to some scholarly articles that say the same thing as youre saying about the reasoning behind the strong verbal comprehension and slow speed processing? He would never get the full amount done but his teacher is aware of this now. There are definite attention issues. He does have a hard time focusing on school work and in class. Looking at these scores and reading your description of your son, would advise building his flexibility and social skills as well as fine motor skills. My son is similar to yours. It also helps that he has a fantastic teacher this year! The psycologist suggested increased speech therapy for a few months but to stop and move to compensation strategy if this doesnt work. Now I want him to learn to be more independent in his writing, so I purchased Dragon, which types his speaking. He is currently working through visual therapy and it is doing wonders. Particularly, my processing speed is extremely low, but I am also frequently lost and confused in general. He cannot figure out what is important. IQ score. Modification of test format and delivery (oral exams, use of a calculator, chunking or breaking down tests into smaller sections to complete, providing breaks between sections, quiet place to complete tests, multiple choice or fill in the blank test format instead of essay) The problem is the huge gap between those two dimensions. reading comprehension 110 Differences have been reported, however, on measures of verbal IQ, with deaf children and adolescents typically obtaining verbal IQ scores within the low average to well below average range. You are very good at number puzzles and picture puzzles, and roughly average with words. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Your childs GAI is strong, how is his school achievement? I took an IQ test when I was 17, however I am still quite confused with some of the result: As you can see there is a huge gap between non-verbal + numerical with verbal IQ. He is dysgraphic, not diagnosed until 11 because he had great penmanship and is so bright. Group I's verbal IQ of 85-3 (dull normal range ) is between the 10th and 20th centiles of the WISC normative group; their performance IQof97 6 (average range) is between the40thand50thcentiles; andfull scale IQof90 4 (average range) corresponds to the 25th centile. The great thing about doing the test this way was that my son, who by now had very low self esteem, could see that while he does have slightly below average writing and spelling, his reading was high average. Intellectual functioning and executive functions in children and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and specific learning disorder (SLD). He does receive speech, OT & vision therapy. A combination of these two They start sounding out words by letters. full scale IQ: 105, achievement: A= Associate it. Second, they will avoid helping him until he is so far behind that they will have to mark him as learning disabled, which will happen in two or three years. The Frustration Profile fits my son, very well. Figure Weights 8- 25% Or should I just be happy that hes average and leave it? It is not a stand alone service in schools here. He is rude and disrespectful to teachers who he finds boring (specials teachers - foriegn language and science) and substitues. Generally the IQ tests are compared to the achievement scores to see if there is abilityachievement discrepancy (AAD) indicating that some problem exists. Eliminating verbal tests would prevent us from discovering children with high verbal abilities, such as those in studies of African American children who show extremely high performance on verbal tasks. Picture Span 14 91% -Memory strategies such as: As a child I struggled with dyslexia it was not until I had my own child that I found a helpful tool. Thanks Coding 15- 95% Writing is very complex task. Im glad you are writing for him and allowing him to just focus on the ideas. Abstract categorical reasoning 75 percentile, Visual motor integration 42 percentile He is very imaginative. -Teach your daughter strategies that cater to her understanding of the big picture: If you have a diagnoses code that should make you eligible for some accommodations. We were then called in and told that he was also struggling greatly with maths and writing and fidgeted a lot, but did not appear hyperactive. -Break down tasks and follow the order checking work along the way Full Scale 118- 88% Verbal 134 I have a high verbal IQ and "very superior" abstract reasoning abilities, but I have slow visual processing speed (runs in the family), and writer's cramp in my hands, which leads to an over all slow working speed and low performance IQ with respect to my verbal IQ. Fingers crossed he will get what he needs to be happy and healthy and interested in school! Understood.org is a great resource. I just would like to know whether people perhaps know something about this or whether they have found/read something, since what I can find is only the first problem. By contrast, his working memory and processing speed were both average for his age. The 65 subjects, 12 years old on the average at first test, were retested after a mean interval of six and a half years. He is pretty driven and wants to excel (I never have to tell him to study or do his homework), however, everything in regards to studying and completing homework takes him SO much time. Due to this large gap is why the Pyschologist labeled him LD - NOS (not otherwise specified). His highest subtests were in Perceptual reasoning and Verbal Comp. Anyhow, here are his recent assessment results: The first step in my view is to determine that this actually means in terms of what kind of brain you have. Verbal Comp-155 Review sentences structure and how to correct run on sentences Of course they can always do better than you and quicker by working at it. In cases of individuals with high-IQ scores and high verbal scores, these verbal scores also create peaks that make the high Block Design less prominent, which might underline their right-descending profile. WM 103 I really like the clarity and style of your report it makes complex concepts very straightforward to understand. Teach the writing process and editing strategies You dont say anything about attention issues, but working memory and processing speed can be impacted by attention. This forum is dedicated to the work associated with Dr. Jordan Peterson: a public intellectual, clinical psychologist, and professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Toronto. I wish you a wonderful school year! He does has done great in all subjects execpt math, but is now having trouble in other classes. Build strategies to help analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in a given assignment Large gap between verbal IQ and performance IQ scores, Re:Large gap between verbal IQ and performance IQ scores, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder. We have since had to see developmental pedeatricians to get out of this mess (who say he is not autistic but has specific right-sided fine motor issues, and strongly suspected dyslexia). Our bottom line is how to we move to the place of finding strategies to assist XXXX in reaching his full potential. He is smart and very perceptive of people, their feelings and the world but it seems like his abilities dont translate into academic performance. He actively tries to avoid teamwork at school, as he doesnt value his peers ideas. Medication is the last thing I want to do, but if he could feel good about himself by not feeling like he is a disappointment to his teachers because he doesnt know why he doesnt do those things.. he isnt being defiant. You are asked to prove something and you quickly develop an idea of what specific method of proof is going to work. Comparing the two discrepant profiles revealed that the children also differed by type of learning difficulty, gender, and performance in the WISC-IV Symbol search task. Verbal Comprehension 126 96pc R= Review it. VCI 86%, PRI 50%, PSI 4% (Coding 16%, Symbol 1%) In the meantime his reading skills had soared and he now in fact has above average reading abilities. These children generally can share their thoughts verbally but . He is a quick thinker with a great sense of humor. He works very well one on one, but this is not possible all of the time. He is actually doing okay now but he is in the slowest classes and his reading, writing, spelling skills arent the best. He is now doing very well with reading, but is struggling with mental arithmetic. It took me more than 30 years to find out what went wrong at school, and I finally realize that is was not my fault. Oct 9, 2017. In his Griffiths developmental scores that he undertook at age 3 1/2, he was found to be approx 6 months developmentally delayed (mostly due to gross motor delays and self-sabotage! Unbelievable to learn there are others who have difficulties very similarif not identicalto my 12 yo son who has been diagnosed with so many different entities since he was 3 yo. THANK YOU! I have been reading your site with great interest! Your profile of the child always being slow with the output fits with him perfectly These are the Verbal and Performance sections, each of which requires different forms of intellectual functioning. We have the exact same issue. Lots of reasons possible, all with possible specific consequences for how you solve problems. Digit span 50percentile Would you be interested in being a reviewer for this book (series?). I just found your site and think it might be a game changer for my 13 yo son who struggles most with the easiest homework assignments on a daily basis. A student with PSI as the highest index score may indicate a child who is quick to respond, but may not be taking the time to think first (an executive functioning skill). A follow-up study was performed to investigate the stability of IQ measures in a group of dyslexic teenagers and young adults. College with many registered LD students My hope is that all students can find a way to success. For WISC? I am worried for my son. In contrast my sons teacher feels it is impossible that he could have scored within the averages to high averages in any tests other than VCI). TAPS Word Disc 9, Phono Seg 7, Phono Blend 14, Num Mem Fwd 8, Num Mem Rev 6, Word Mem 8, Sent Mem 8, Aud Comp -11, Aud Reasoning 12. Large amounts of homework lead him to put forth extended energy and time to complete his work, which can lead to frustration. He currently is an 8th grader, and I had him tested in 3rd grade. If you have a significant difference between your Verbal Comprehension Index and Processing Speed Index so you should definitely get extra time on in-class assignments and tests. (visual auditory learning 100, retrieval fluency 109) The first is verbal, and the second is performance. PS 85 It emerged that the proportion of children with a Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) at least 1.5 SD (22 standardized points) lower than their scores on the Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) was larger than the proportion of SLD children with the opposite discrepant profile; it was also larger than the same proportion found among TD children. -The SQ3R approach is recommended as an approach to studying information from text books Difficulty with set shifting can lead to trouble with problem solving and flexible thinking which can cause a child to become ridge in his thinking and present with a black or white approach to instructions or rule. 2015 Dec 16;10(12):e0144645. Math is no problem for him given personal attention and time to get the work done. Also try this: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/want-to-become-a-better-writer-copy-the-work-of-others/, edit: This post reminded me of your situation http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/25/the-tails-coming-apart-as-metaphor-for-life/. Textbooks on tape The scores are obtained in a statistical manner, and are not based on the percentage of questions answered correctly. Writing, however, is killing both of us. Visual-spatial thinking (picture recognition) 111. Audio-taped text book, His bigger challenges at school are probably behavioral. I think that the professional told me that if there was more than 10 or 15 points between different subtests, that it invalidated the IQ test results. Thoroughly preparing the child in advance for field trips, modified schedules, or other changes, regardless of how minimal; New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Writing A person who scores high on a typical IQ test may not have the basic nonverbal skills to, for example, get to the grocery store before the food runs out or put together a build-it-yourself piece of furniture. The Bender Gestalt tests involve copying pictures (and require physical output). Mathematics 96 VCI-102-110-117 Any insights that you have into my son and how best to support his development would be appreciated. Working memory is your daughters lowest score. Language-based reasoning may involve reading or listening to words, conversing, writing, or even thinking. So frustrating just not knowing how best to help our son with his struggles. I knew his processing speed was going to be really low. Here are some articles I have written: Metacognition Helps Build Self Regulation and Executive Functioning Skills. His scores are VCI 127 with extremely high scores in the vocabulary subtext Your suggestion for time and and half testing would be great if I could use that on the ACT, but they (the ACT) are very strict about accommodations for disability. He was also given an achievement test the WIAT-III, composite scores were higher in oral language (109), total reading (99) than in written expression or mathematics (89, 94, 96). 106. However, when these visual deficits are present, there performance IQ (PIQ) is often much lower than there verbal iq (VIQ). The latest testing shows a massive 50 point spread between his verbal IQ (116) and performance IQ (77!). Faedda N, Romani M, Rossetti S, Vigliante M, Pezzuti L, Cardona F, Guidetti V. Scand J Psychol. He is in 7th grade. Id skip writing, but I cant skip writing. There is a correlation between WM weakness and executive functioning and/or attention issues. High verbal iq, low performance iq - strategies? High verbal scores and low performance score indicate either 1) brain damage, likely to the right hemisphere, or 2) an overachiever, such as an average-ability person with abundant resources, high quality (and quantity) education. Emphasizing the strong academic skills and gifts of the child with NLD by creating cooperative learning situations in which his proficient verbal, reading, oral spelling, vocabulary, and memory skills will be showcased to advantage (and his difficulties with writing can be de-emphasized); WMI-68-74-84 My son reached his motor milestones late but was an early talker. Never assuming this child understands something just because he can parrot back what you have just said; I am wondering if she might have dyslexia, but flies under the radar. They have give me plenty to think about. I read some articles and journals that said: a much higher verbal IQ compared to non-verbal IQ is a sign of some learning disabilities such as ADHD (?). However, the WISC alone does not give all the information needed to identify a learning disability. multiple choice, True / False, fill in the blank) to accommodate for slow writing fluency. His academic testing also shows pretty much all measures are in the average range. Thanks so MUCH for any advice so I can figure out how to better teach and assess any student with this problem. Excellent post I had been wondering about how someone might get on with a strong VCI but more average scores in other areas. He is on a new medication today and I am longing to know how his day went. Compare the two scores, are they similar? What IS challenging to him is the work. I was held back in mathematics in Jr. High because of my slow speed, and forced to do timed multiplication tests every day, despite my insistence that I understood higher mathematical concepts. Adjusting class schedule (schedule those classes that require most mental focus at beginning of school day, schedule in regular breaks for student throughout the day to allow for physical movement and brain rest, adjustments to nonacademic time) The only discrepancy I see is in his working memory index. All of these very bright students were. I am anxious to see what the psychologist will recommend after she gathers all the information on the BRIEF. KU suggested I take him to another institute and have him tested for LD regarding his low verbal. Any help would be very much appreciated. If significant differences exist between these scores then the school may be able to provide you with a 504. Earlier research had shown contradictory results. So happy to have come to this site! Break down tasks and follow the order checking work along the way. In the printout of scores it even includes a chart indicating significant differences that can be used to help highlight strengths and weaknesses. I had previously done a lot of work at home to help with his literacy, we followed on online daily programme and his reading had already improved significantly. Careers. Having a high or low IQ won't keep you out of Law school. math calculation 96 -Exercises to sharpen her ability to attend to visual detail and to express similarities and differences between images are recommended. On the report his spelling is at 16 percentile, and his word reading is 19 percentile. Rapid symbol naming 95 Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/want-to-become-a-better-writer-copy-the-work-of-others/, http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/25/the-tails-coming-apart-as-metaphor-for-life/. For instance, there were no ADHD-only or low-IQ groups for comparison. PLoS One. I am reading a ton of things to try and understand this! His handwriting has improved considerably, but is still well behind his peers. Hes bilingual Italian-French. block 13 picture concepts 19 matrix 16 These are separately referred to as performance IQ (PIQ) and verbal IQ (VIQ). He is a very bright, sociable and funny kid. We are having her 504 meeting in January and I am bringing the results. Hes still struggling a little with cursive writing, but he is now able to get most of his thoughts down on paper in a timely manner. Whenever I have a question or a problem, they are right there to help me. Research on processing speed has shown that the more time someone repeats the task, the more automatic and thus quicker the response becomes. Improve Working Memory, Processing Speed, Attention and Executive Functioning Skills Providing personal space in the resource room or other designated area for regrouping and relaxation. But if you immerse yourself in language: writing, reading, memorizing poems, learning words and phrases, learning the structure of stories and how to analyze them; then you can compensate for that limitation in working memory. The highest score possible is 145, and the lowest score possible is 61; scores between these two extremes represents just one standard deviation from the mean iq for that group. Working memory (WM), attention and executive functioning (EF) skills are often connected. Whether or not the syndrome of idiopathic precocious puberty tends to induce high IQ, Verbal or Performance, is a question that cannot be properly answered from the present findings. I would certainly try to get extra time for a student with a 75 on processing speed. I have a "frustration profile". I was now stuck with a report that both my husband and I felt was just not the kid we knew. I would not use the term sloth to describe you, but since you did here is what National Geographic has to say about sloths: The sloth is the worlds slowest mammal, so sedentary that algae grows on its furry coat..Three-toed sloths also have an advantage that few other mammals possess: They have extra neck vertebrae that allows them to turn their heads some 270 degrees. Exercises to sharpen his ability to attend to visual detail and to express similarities and differences between images. Please Advise! He does have a diagnosis of anxiety and ADHD inattentive type. My son is 11 and was given a WISC-V. His scores were as follows: VCI 118, VSI 117, FRI 97, WM 94, PSI 92, FSIQ 108, GAI 113. Teach self-talk to organize his learning and performance strategies and to focus his attention on tasks Just wanted to let you know that my son DOES in fact have visual problems, just like you said! The book explains processing speed and interventions. He thinks he is stupid, gets frustrated very easily, and cannot write a sentence to save his life. College with large number of ADHD-LD specialists, -Build strategies to help analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in a given assignment Published: 2009-03-01 - Updated: 2018-05-06 Author: JoAnn Collins | Contact: www.disabilitydeception.com Peer-Reviewed Publication: N/A Additional References: Special Education Publications Synopsis: By understanding the difference between verbal and non verbal IQ tests you will be able to ask for the IQ test that . (story recall 115, picture vocabulary 113, oral comprehension 113) FSIQ 91. At home we noticed that he often slumped and slided across the sofa when reading, although he was always well-behaved when eating dinner. The gifted students had excellent working memory, which was linked to their excellent grades. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0144645. I found your article and knew I had to do something to ensure my son got the help he needed. The scores in themselves are basically near meaningless without taking them into context(and cognitive psychology deserves a lot of criticism for inability to take things into context fully). Press J to jump to the feed. A higher IQ person will develop along those lines faster, but there's nothing stopping you from doing so with a lower one. I learned by doing, experimenting, and talking to a friend who had walked this path before me. Use of a computer at school and at home as well as a track pad for his key board is recommended You can read more in my article on metacognition, executive functioning and you can take our Executive functioning quiz. She will be 16 in February. What students with learning issues can provide for themselves: If you are hoping for 504, you would need to have some academic testing done to show that his achievement is not matching his potential. Can you please talk about that? Sometimes gifted learners have absorbed information so easily when they are little they have not learned how to breakdown and work with new information that is outside their area of expertise. Processing Speed can be a Challenge at all ages. Her WISC-V scores are as follows: By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Teach Glen to use graphic organizers such as checklists and timelines for breaking down assignments, as well as classify and categorize information. He worked on Lexia for three months, but became more and more frustrated with homework. Teach Glen to recognize common words for ordering a sequence of instructions, such as first, next, and finally.. Also this year he will start writing in French at school. The test was quite different to the one we took in the spring, carried out at my house with me present, and every test explained very clearly to ensure accuracy. Assistance with note taking (providing student with a copy of class notes, peer assistance with note taking, audio taping of lectures) His lowest sub test was a 6 in Coding and in one of the subtest for working memory. Do you have suggestions? The Woodcock-Johnson tests measures basic skills for reading, writing, math along with fluency within those subjects. Accommodations Available to Qualified Students With ADHD form the article from About.com: Processing Speed can be a Challenge at all ages. She thought my son was twice gifted specifically conceptually. I have scheduled a outside tutor to start 3 days a week using the Orton Gillingham method. Inspiration Program It doesn't appear in any feeds, and anyone with a direct link to it will see a message like this one. When we brought Tim home, I had no idea what I was doing. The report we received gave us very little information to work with especially in understanding what the results are to mean and/or how there are to be used. I hope that the homework helper you have is building executive functioning skills as they do homework. Choosing: DS so far has done pretty well academically (with some IEP supports), but reading/writing/spelling are noticably stronger than math and general problem solving. Are there additional programs or services that could help my child? Woodcock Johnson? Despite it being over 20 years ago, I can still remember being an elementary school student and facing this choice: write neatly but never complete in time or leave an illegible scrawl. He said he was either keeping it secret or that someone always spoke up before him.. If your DC has an average/high average verbal IQ but low performance IQ, have they been able to function adequately in school and beyond? Do I take him to a professional, who will test him in more detail? Extra set of books for student to keep at home Providing a highly individualized educational program; He has ADHD and dysgraphia. Thankfully he is very happy in school and has a lovely group of friends. By way of background, six months earlier, we heard from his teacher that he was very behind in reading and spelling.