14c28n steel vs d2

Then you can compare 14c28n vs d2, and we hope you will find the right one for your needs. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. Extra kudos for your mathmatical steel composition to edge holding model thats really impressive work. Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. there seems to be an optimal procedure for every alloy (provided its heat treated to industial standards). On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. CPM 4V The both blade are equally wear resistant. These steels favor edge retention over all else. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. Perhaps a bigger issue with the upper temper is for stainless steels, as there is a significant reduction in corrosion resistance by tempering at 1000F instead of 400F. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. Are you looking for 14c28n steel with other steel? Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). i understand the samples were treated in the same way. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. Is that accurate? H1 But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. CPM 3V High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. Your email address will not be published. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. When describing the characteristics of a steel, a few common attributes are commonly talked about. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. All rights reserved. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. MagnaCut H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. CPM 10V You can see that 64 Rc AEB-L has both lower toughness and edge retention than 61 Rc MagnaCut, so I feel that in general you get a better sense of where the steels fit with a single point. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon.. The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. We can predict edge retention of a steel within a relatively narrow band based on hardness and carbide volume. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. For more information see our. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. 52100 INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. Carpenter produces this powder steel. BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. Below shows Vanax tempered at 400F on the left and 1000F on the right after 1% saltwater for 24 hours: There are many other ways in which knife steel performance can be reduced through heat treatment but I cant cover them all in this article so hopefully these illustrative examples will be enough. Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. G10 The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. Read more. D2 Leek vs. 14C28N Random Leek | BladeForums.com in relation to hardness). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. The Best D2 Steel Knives And What Makes Them Great It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 1095 I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. ), intended use will give you all the answers. Thanks! But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. Around 61 Rc usually. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. Rex 45 Which one is right for you? I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. How Good Is Nitro V Stainless Steel - Knives & Gear For more information, please see our That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? The performance of these blades are equally admirable. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. Though the volume of carbonitrides in the steel is relatively high. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. As from features, for presenting d2 continue to grow in the knife industry, generally because of their working performance and reasonable price, a lot of superior low budget knives are building their reputation. Still looking forward to magnacut making it into high volume production and use. I also added a few more steels in this study. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention.