In that rabbinical tradition of the Kabbalah there is one saying that wisdom begins above thoughts, or when thought ceases wisdom begins, which can be taken as a Buddhistic idea too, and there’s a good chance those thinkers were influenced by intersections of Buddhism… but I think that when horrible things happen to us the mind has, we have this way of protecting ourselves through dissociation because we cannot endure the actual act itself, we can be fully present there, and repression is related to that, or repression is a function of dissociation. And I was never given the opportunity, outside of playing college football, to develop the strength that can afford, an atmosphere like that. Lao Tzu, in the Tao Te Ching—a text you reference often—suggests that thought, action, and by extension I suppose poetry, should all arise organically in order to be authentic and in accord with the Tao. I wonder if you’d agree; and if you’d speak to the ways in which this observed dichotomy might be indicative of a larger cultural trend and direction in this country in particular? MA, Brown University. BE: I went through a similar experience, I actually spent 6 weeks in a clinic two years ago for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and I emerged much stronger, and much more confident. And my book “Timber and Prayer” did very well in the circle of national prizes, and I won’t say which one, but someone inside the process confided to me that I almost got one of the biggies. I think it’s kind of difficult to get around the fact that suffering does teach you. In addition, he was the first to be named an elder of the Cave Canem Foundation. It’s almost opposite of what we do over here, you might even say that it’s—the Chinese concept of pedagogy—historically more of a flip classroom, nowadays they talk about a flip classroom. Some of us directly work with it, and the more you directly work with such a thing the more you are informed by it, which is to say you can’t open those canisters and just close them at will. A 2002 Fulbright Scholar, Weaver’s further honors include fellowships from both The Pew Charitable Trusts and the National Endowment for the Arts. I had never gone to a writer’s retreat and I went to one called Renaissance House out on Martha’s Vineyard at the suggestion of someone. But I didn’t write very much after that, not in a regular way, and in 1990 I wrote a draft of the book of mine “The Ten Lights of God” which Bucknell University published, and those poems were inspired by the Kabbalah, the rabbinical idea of God’s body having ten lights, so little by little as I continued to write, I wrote my way into this self-discovery, this self-awareness, and was not able to recover from that from 1998 until the spring of 2005. And so when I emerged from the factory in 1985 with the NEA fellowship and a book—I had a book from the University of Virginia, Charles Rowell published a book, the man who did the anthology “Angles of Ascent”—when I emerged—I had come through a period as a journeyman, or, I’m sorry, as an apprentice, journeyman comes after apprentice—it was rugged and my challenges weren’t over when I came out of the factory. He also studied Chinese language at the Taipei Language Institute in Taiwan. You know, we talk about the MFA programs and their proliferation, but it is entirely possible to come through an MFA program and even get a teaching job and not be as well read as that older generation that I’m talking about. "[5], His poems have appeared in literary journals and magazines including Callaloo. When my first marriage collapsed we lost the first child and I suffered a rather severe breakdown, I realized that the challenges were rather immense. He makes his home in Boston where he serves as a Professor of English at Simmons College. I was 18 years old and began working as a steelworker at Bethlehem Steel when my father worked and several of my uncles, with the idea that I would develop and grow as a poet and a writer among the workers so to speak… I had a very naive kind of idea, as many of us did at that time, kind of a neo-Marxist idea, that the poet or the writer should develop in the context of the working class, working people, but I was not really in touch with the fact that I wasn’t entering that group (but) that I was actually a member of it. In sitting there reading his book, his poetry over the last couple weeks I’ve been deeply moved, it’s almost as if he kept the light burning, you know? Whereas The Plum Flower Dance is more concerned with unearthing and chronicling your origins and personal history, the “I” in The Government of Nature seems, somehow, both more collective, and more poetically distinct. I see Christ as an embodiment of these principles of a simplistic harmony. It’s easy to walk around by yourself in the woods and declare yourself an enlightened being but it might be a total fantasy because you’re out there by yourself, your not engaged with other human beings. Afaa, thank you for taking the time. He is the Director of the Writing Intensive at The Frost Place. And then last summer, 2014, I went out there with the determination to go into those 15 years of factory work and write about them and I managed to generate about 45 pages of manuscript. So I think that the “Afaa” is a way of getting through things, opening things up. AMW: I could go back to my early years in the factory, as a factory worker, when I dropped out of the university in 1970. Thanks for inviting me. But there is that question of what is working class, you know. AMW: I think that is accurate and I think the period between the two books is a very long period, because “The Plum Flower Dance” covers a span of 20 years of published work, and from the very beginning when I began writing I had the kind of definite thing that you’ll see when I’m writing about something as specific as race, but then something that’s much larger when I’m trying to deal with issues of being human. And in the tradition in which I was raised I had the example of Christ enduring the suffering and then in the Buddhist tradition you have Buddha going out in the world to experience what he saw as suffering in order to transcend.
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