6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. Thats a great question. Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. 8L80E The stator shaft support housing is fitted with a converter drive gear and idler gear. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. Subscribe Now This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . Wait 1 second. Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Im thinking 3.73. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. Second 2.99 The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Your email address will not be published. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Learn how your comment data is processed. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Reply. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Tenth 0.64 Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. Wait 2 seconds. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. Will this hurt the trani? Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. Fifth 1.52 August 8, 2022. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. RECALLS! * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. Gm hydro 10 speed. The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. Note, all models will have a warmer. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Online Buyer's Guide Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. RPO Code MF6 To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. See how the ratios have swapped places? In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Im with you on AFM is crap. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. LT). Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) We are High Performance Transmission Builders document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Its good for a 12.69 @ 111 mph in cool dry weather.I go down the track with the lock up switch off. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). 10R80 transmission swap? When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). But in order to make this work properly, they began by making the overall First gear ratio deeper. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Hi Jeff, What is your recomendation for towing? For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. Cart The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. That year, for the first time, the 10R80 ten-speed transmission was available with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6, 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, or 5.0-liter Coyote V8 engine options and was even an option with their popular Raptor model. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. document.write("- "+yr); The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. Account. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Quick 4 Stand-Alone Transmission Control System Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. Required fields are marked *. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out.

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